Episode 4: Isis Rosso - Executive Function

Nell and Laine interview an executive functioning coach who works on the front line with today's school aged children and literally sees it all. They discuss the focus of her work, which is helping kids and teens develop the skills to survive the demanding education system along with their complicated extra curricular schedules. They touch on the pitfalls of our society's high-acheiving culture while also exploring the opportunities that exist simultaneously. This epsode is for anyone with a child in their life, to better understand and empathize with the pressures they face and their capabilities, or lack there of, in the face of such demand.

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Transcript

Nell: Is, is life too chaotic? And then we expect them to be somehow super organized and you know, do they even have the tools to? Well, my friends, today we have Isis Rosso here to explain to us everything. She's an executive function coach here in Puerto Rico and she knows everything. So bless us with everything.

Isis: I don't know that I know everything, but thank you for having me. Um, so I'm excited to share some info with you guys, um, and you know, uh, be part of the conversation. I know that a lot of parents sometimes have these, um, burning questions about how do I get my kiddo to keep their room organized or to keep their backpacks organized?

Um, or even just to know what's happening day to day. And so I'm happy to help you guys answer, um, these questions and kind of get to the bottom of it.

Laine: Love it. It sounds so simple, but there are, there are things that play us, aren't they?

Isis: Uh, yes, for sure.

Nell: life. So can you just give us like a basic definition so that everybody knows, okay, like what is this that you work with? Explain what executive function is so that we start with a

Laine: And how it affects us,

Isis: Uh, yeah. So just to give you the basics, right. So I am an executive functioning coach, but I am a special education teacher by trade. Um, I've been in the field for 24 years and I've. given myself the opportunity to kind of observe, um, what, uh, development looks like from birth all the way up to adulthood.

So in that journey, I've realized that executive functions really play an important part in our overall development as humans. Um, you know, just to give you like a, straight up definition, executive function refers to a set of cognitive processes that help individuals manage their thoughts, their actions, and emotions.

Um, so a lot of the things that we do is that we try to teach children these skills because they form the foundation of decision making, um, problem solving and self regulation. Um, I can guarantee you that you guys have taught, thought about decision making, problem solving and self regulation probably on a daily basis when you question, why can't he just remember his water bottle? Um,

Laine: you're like, why do I have to do the checklist?

Isis: yes,

Nell: That's the biggest problem I feel like of all my friends that we talk about is the water bottles being left all over the island. And we could make a small college

Laine: I just, I've been out of, I was out of town all weekend and I came home and now I can't find my little one's two water bottles. And I'm like, because I was gone, nobody else keeps track of it, including her poor baby. And now I don't have a water bottle

Nell: Add that to the, to the deficit.

Isis: Yes. I am an executive functioning coach and have a daughter who leaves her water bottles everywhere. Um, so even, even the professionals deal with this.

Nell: So what is, can you tell us what you created at La Casita? Because Isis has a center here and I find it unique and beautiful. And can you explain to everybody

Laine: And it's called La Casita.

Isis: So it's called like a seat that that up or the therapeutical house. Um, the reason we developed it was, uh, that's a funny story behind it. Um, I typically do like these back to school bootcamps, um, for kiddos who are getting ready to, um, get back to school, need to get their summer works done and they haven't done it.

And so we kind of help support them. And the first year I did it at my mom's house and I realized that, um, They would sit around the table and they would do their work and they would chat. Um, and then they would go and sit on the couch and that was really neat. And then they would go outside and sit on the hammock and just, they just had this really cool vibe and they loved every piece of that.

And we did cooking and we did all kinds of stuff. And Um, when I was thinking of the idea, I realized that that is the environment I want kids to have. I want them to feel like they're coming home somewhere. Um, and they're learning these really important skills that they can use everywhere, right? Because if they can do it and they feel like it's home, it's a lot easier to generalize that skill throughout.

Um, so we really wanted to create a supportive space where we were really reinforcing their, their skills, really reinforcing their behaviors, and really encouraging them to want to, um, you know, do their best. Um, and, and for a lot of kids, sometimes that can be a challenge because their homes might not be like that way.

And so we wanted to be able to create that space for them.

Nell: Probably like a piece. Also, I know that kids often learn a lot from each other, right? And there's like a, a motivation that when they're seeing other kids, um, maybe doing things and learning and then they want to do that, or they can even teach the kids younger than them or that need help. And there's like an empowerment there, right?

Isis: absolutely. And we have a variety of kiddos that come to our space. Um, and that's actually what happens, you know, when they're not doing, when they're not practicing their skills, they're really are helping, um, either the younger ones or each other, just to. you know, to be kind and to learn and to push each other, which is, which is something that I find that's beautiful.

Nell: And the people who are coming to you, so what would be, can you describe kind of a typical family that's coming to you and what they're looking for when they're in need? Have they already tried other tutoring? Have they, are they kind of coming to you as like, wow, we need a, we need help? Or is it, I

Isis: yeah, so I have, I have, um, families from different walks of life, right? They'll come to me, um, with the, with one main goal. One is that they want to help their kiddo, um, improve in their organization and independence. skills. Um, others need academic support, um, and they need an environment where they can, um, not have distractions and be able to, you know, focus and, and, and practice because at the end of the day, it's all about practicing and creating some good habits.

Um, so as we do that, um, and we offer that, we, we have all kinds of kiddos. So we have families, um, you know, of Children who maybe have been identified with a learning disability or Children who have been, um, who just struggling or even busy kiddos. You know, we even have busy kiddos that they just have really crazy schedules that need a space, um, to be able to, you know, get it, get work done.

Laine: Are there specific red flags that inform you on whether a child is truly in need of executive functioning support? Things that like, you know. that just stand out to you because, like, obviously we, my sister and I talk a little bit about this, like, over therapy too. Like, this idea that, even though you just said busy kiddos now and you're like, oh, mine, well, sometimes does a busy child have time for another therapy or another support, you know what I mean?

So, are there specific red flags that really inform you and tell you this child can really benefit from this?

Isis: are, you'll, you'll see kiddos who are probably struggling to keep their spaces. meet or with some kind of order. Um, you'll see kiddos that, um, have difficulty making decisions. You might, um, see a little bit of that. They just have a hard time. They, they can't, they don't know where to start. Um, so they probably are having some challenges with planning.

Um, you'll see kiddos who have difficulties with self regulation. They're, they're impulsive. Um, they can't, um, they can't, um, You know, they can't contain their, their emotion or they want to call out or they want to constantly talk, um, or they jump into action instead of kind of waiting for the direction.

So they miss out on those directions. Um, also you'll see kiddos who have low self esteem that they're, you know, that they'll put themselves down. I mean, I can't do this, or I'm not smart enough. You know, You'll hear little comments here and there about that. Um, you'll also see that in kiddos who are rigid, um, that they need to have things a specific way and if they can't do it, it's going to be the end of the world type of thing.

Um, and,

Nell: hard on themselves.

Isis: yeah, they're very hard on themselves. Uh, so you'll see, those are kind of little flags. How do I identify them? Well, there's 10 main executive functions that we tend to look at. We look at, um, we look at planning. So can I organize a plan to be able to execute it? Um, I have task initiation.

That's a huge one for a lot of our kids. They're big on procrastination. I mean, I won't single out kids because adults, we also do that, but procrastination is a big thing in their, in their orbit. Um, so task initiation is one of those skills. time management. How long or how short does it take me to get something done?

Um, we have working memory. Um, do I have the ability to pick up on information and kind of retain it, um, and then be able to use it? Um, that I tied in with something that's called metacognition. Metacognition is really what something that That refers to how people learn or understand their learning process.

Like, Oh, I know what progress I'm making or yeah, I'm understanding the material or no, I'm not understanding. It's being able to recognize that as an, as an executive function.

Nell: So interesting. Okay.

Isis: flexibility. Um, attention. So if you have those kiddos that are squirrel, you know, uh, that don't have, right, they don't have that, yeah.

attention for long periods of time, you're gonna see that impacted. Um, and so those are some of those. And then perseverance would be the last one, right? So perseverance is, you know, can't, do I see that I can actually reach my goal? Um, so once you start looking at each one of those categories, you can really start looking at, wow, which is the area that's most impacting my kiddo, right?

Um, sometimes we go straight to organization, but no, sometimes it might be an attention thing, or sometimes it just might be a perseverance thing or, or, or a task initiation thing. So once we start to pinpoint those, we can really, um, we can really start doing the work. Um, the way that I structure it, and this is really good advice for you, for you to kind of play around with your kids, is what are their strengths and how do those strengths really support their, their challenges, right?

Um, because when you're hyper focusing on the things that they can do, then they can see that anything's possible and they can overcome and compensate. Um, with those things that, that maybe are a little bit harder for them.

Laine: great

Isis: Um, so that's, that's just,

Nell: And it seems like that's what they're talking about even in education now these days is that it's like if your child is really has a hard time at math, but they're really good at language arts, like put them in more language arts. Don't, you know, yeah, get, let them survive math, but don't.

Try to make them a mathematician. Like if their brain isn't wired that way, focus on what they're actually really good at. They might really thrive in that then.

Isis: There's

Nell: I know that,

Isis: really cool thing. It's called hacked learning that I really like. Uh, and it's the premise of it is really to really take the things that they're really good at and try to implement. everything that you can so that they can learn that that skill that they need to learn. So, the other day I spoke to a parent who was teaching the kids how to bake apple pie, and they turned that into a science, math, language, arts, history, all kinds of, you know, uh, topic, uh, and that worked.

Beautiful for them.

Nell: That sounds like an amazing person.

Laine: very creative. Yeah. I was going

Nell: I was like, is that an educator by any chance? Does she have a

Isis: it's apparent. No.

Nell: just a regular parent. Wow. Talent. Um, so I was going to ask you like, I know that one of the things you focused on with um, You know, full disclosure, EC works with my son. And one of the things that I came to you with was really wanting him to become more independent.

And yes, organized, to be able to manage things because I know like everything I've read and investigated is that like how important it is for kids to be able to, to manage and feel that confidence and capability. And I just, I have three kids. I'm like, I can't, he's got to start getting more independent.

So, um, I guess I want to know. Is this like, is this an epidemic of, of parents taking on too much for their kids with, because they're so overwhelmed with school and sports and whatnot?

Laine: So parents have like a natural, they probably have like a natural inkling to, to help support because they can see it's too much for their child.

Nell: Yes. So how, how, what is that thin line?

Isis: this is an interesting topic, right? Um, and I, I have to go back to our own experience, right? I think that Um, I think it's a generational thing. Um, it's kind of silly to say that, but we are, we are the products of our parents and our children are the products of us, right? So we tend to make decisions based on the experiences that we've had, uh, either growing up or as in life in general.

And so one of the things that we. do as parents, and I include myself, right, is we try to look at what was our experience, what was the, the experience of our generation growing up, and what do we not want to do? Okay. And so I, what I've noticed is that, um, We tend to, uh, want to support our kids maybe in ways that our families or parents, uh, because they were working or they were doing some other stuff or the priorities were different.

And so this, it might seem controversial because it comes back to us as parents, but, you know, I think that we've, we have become anxious about making sure that our kids are successful and do what they need to do. And so, um, sometimes I feel like we have, we have, and, and, and in terms of being able to allow them that independence, we've interrupted that a little bit.

It's not a bad thing. I have to say that out loud. It's not

Nell: Oh, good. I love that you're de stigmatizing that. Okay. Cause I think it's so stigmatized.

Isis: Right? It sounds bad.

Laine: our parents did that they wanted to do. I always remember mom saying that her mother yelled a lot and mom didn't yell at us a lot. Like she undid that she undid that, you know, that experience. Yeah. And I

Nell: And now we're, we're, now we're redoing it, Lane, you

Laine: Yeah,

Nell: yelling at our kids.

Isis: listen. And I put myself in that category, you know? Um, but

Laine: we don't have trauma with yelling.

Isis: to bring this up because it's a reality, right? It's a reality that we don't notice. We're just moving on with life and trying to do our best. That's the other thing as parents, we're trying to do our best for our kids.

And so when it comes to independence and, and, and allowing them those spaces, it's being able to say, you know what? Yeah. I did it. It's not a problem. Um, what can I do now to allow the spaces for them to be independent? Um, and then it's, it's creating habits, I think, for ourselves and for them to be able to create that independence.

And that's what it goes back

Nell: Isn't it a deep failure of, or a deep fear of fail, of watching your kids fail? I mean, I, I feel like that's, it's like this deep fear of being like, Oh my God, I have to help him make sure he gets, he doesn't fail this test. I've got to get him an extra tutoring session. I've got to. And then you start to wonder, well, like until what extent I'm trying to let Nico's start to now navigate with his, teachers where I'm stepping away and I'm like, this is on you.

And I've noticed it's starting to

Laine: really good. I was gonna say, that's so good though, because that teaches them just the skill to like advocate for themselves or to like deal with any sort of embar, yeah, like embarrassment or

Nell: it's not perfect.

Laine: right,

Nell: Cause it's so much easier for me to write an email and then, and then like, kind of concierge it. But I'm like, you know, I had, it's uncomfortable for me to let him do it. I'm like, you know what?

Laine: I have to tell you a funny story that I had with, with my daughter the other day. They, I, I, she want, she had to do this, this expander on her mouth. And after she did the expander, the dentist was like, we're going to, I think Invisalign's the best option for her. She's responsible because she's definitely my most responsible child.

My middle. And I was like, Invisalign, really? Okay. And she was so excited. She got this Invisalign. But like, The first week she did great, but after that there just started to be mistakes, like she left it on the, the camp bus, you know, like she had wrapped it up in a towel because she forgot her case. There was things starting to happen, like, I was like, oh my god, you know, chasing after her a little bit, riding the cam, then it was like, you know, she, Didn't want to wear it to a birthday party because she knew she was going to be eating and she didn't want the responsibility and then she'd like forget to take it to school one day or I just started noticing I'm, it would be the end of the week and she'd need the new, the new set and they wouldn't fit because she hadn't worn it enough and I was like, this is getting really bad.

Well, the last time we went to the dentist, I had to laugh because she said to the dentist, I don't want Invisalign anymore, I just want braces. I was like, Oh, you're not getting braces. I was like, you're not getting braces. And she was like, well, why do you want braces? And my daughter was just like, because that's too hard.

The Invisalign's too, it's too much. Like I keep making mistakes. And I was so proud that she was saying it, but I was also like, we're not going to pay for like, we've already paid for Invisalign and the dentist was like, no, no, no, you don't have to pay extra. Like we can switch to braces. And I was like, okay.

Hmm.

Isis: Okay.

Laine: I, and I, I really let, I, I let Justine or my daughter talk to the dentist about it and they worked it out. And I was like, all right, fine. You want braces. Like, I, I kept trying to say to her, the Invisalign is like the big girl thing. You're doing like the big girl thing, but, but if you wanna go to braces 'cause you feel like it, there's less error in it.

And, and I was actually kind of impressed with her that she was able to articulate that it was just too. much for her. She didn't like the

Nell: It's phenomenal. I

Laine: She didn't like it. She didn't like it. And it was like, it was stressing her out. And now I don't know if you remember the family reunion, she put it in like a red solo cup and mom was taking

Nell: I remember the

Laine: And then she, and then they gave me the solo cup and then I, I lost it. I'm like, I lost the frigging Invisalign, you know, and she was crying in the car and I was like,

Nell: I mean, for, for adults, Invisalign is very challenging. I know because I did it during the pandemic. And I remember that orthodontist saying, you have to put it in the case because you have no idea how many people will throw it out in the napkin or the cup or whatnot. But I, I, I remember that I felt like I survived it only because I was in the pandemic and my life was extremely simplified.

It was super

Laine: Well that, so that's an example of like almost like putting too much of an adult responsibility on a child, even though they're responsible and the feelings I think she gathered from it were like the opposite of what you spoke of, Isis, which is like you said, like, you know, to kind of emphasize there, there are good qualities.

Like she was feeling bad about herself. She was like sobbing, crying when she would forget it because she has high expectations and she felt terrible. And I was like, that's why when she, when she really articulated it, I was like, you know what? Fine. Do the races. Like, what do I care? You know, you'll feel better about yourself.

You don't have the responsibility.

Isis: Yeah.

Nell: One of the things I wanted to ask, per that, is that, I, one of the emotions I go through is sometimes, wondering, does the world, does school, do parents ask so much or expect more of their kids than we did when we were younger, as you were saying? Because, I, I, sometimes I want to blame, You know, the school, in my mind, I'm like, why should they be responsible for so much?

Or, Lane, in your case, the orthodontist, why would you ever impose them this, like, why would you recommend?

Laine: rookie move. I'm like, why would you do that to us?

Nell: Rookie move. And, and like, I feel like I go through that sometimes at the school where I'm like, wow, they're asked to navigate, you know, the website and each class has its page and go through every single tab.

And, and I'm like, okay, yeah, I, I love that they're preparing that. And then there's this other part of me that I'm like, well, we. able to do that? Would, would we have been able to do that when we were younger? Is

Laine: we more

Nell: too,

Laine: Was it like more?

Nell: or we just have more, um, appropriate responsibilities or more appropriate, um, like, I guess, skills being thrown at us to be able to master?

I, I, it's like that idea of giving a kid four instructions or two instructions. Like, if they're only ready for two, just give them two. Why do they have to do four things? Why do they have to be able to process four instructions? And live them out.

Isis: That's processing. That's your brain. Um, and I think that they've done that. They, they, there's Some purpose to it, right? I mean, part of the things that we do in executive functions, we do observe and we observe it from a very young age as we look at, you know, our Children's able our Children able to retain information and be able to use it.

And so following directions is one of those primary Things that kids have to learn, um, from very early on, you know, first you start with one step, then you start with two, then three, and then you go into more complex, uh, pieces of that. Um, but to your point in terms of the expectations, um, not too long ago, I, um, I came to the understanding that everyone has an expectation, right?

Um, from a parent perspective, we have our expectations of what we want for our children. The school has their own set of expectations of what they want for their students. Um, and a lot of times we lose our ability to see what the child wants to have or needs and their experience, right? Because we're so focused on putting the expectations from school and, and parent, right?

Um, and so one thing that we try to do from our perspective is we try to take that noise out. We understand that those are important because we understand that mom just, loves their kids so much that she wants the best for them. Um, so she has those high expectations in school, has to keep the demand of having the school have a good grade, have the school be successful.

Also make sure that these students are learning things, um, that we, we kind of lose sight of, Hey, what is. What does little Johnny need? You know, have we talked to little Johnny lately to see where he's at? Um, whether he's understanding the material, whether he's enjoying school, whether he's, you know, whether it's something that, that is, is challenging or not for him.

And so what we try to do is we try to slow that down and we kind of have those conversations with them. And then we start to build from there and it goes back to looking at their strengths. Um, and then having productive conversations as a team, okay, based on little Johnny's execution in terms of his grades and looking at how he's performing at his sports and looking how he's performing, um, academically or even socially.

Um, let's just have a conversation to see, um, You know, are we, are we giving him or her what they need at this time, at the pace that they need? Um, and I think that's something for us to, to kind of look at and consider, um, because we want everything for them. If it were for me, I would take my daughter to the Olympics tomorrow, right?

Um, but I can't because that's my, that's my expectation. That's what I would love for her because I think that she would feel amazing for that. But. Is that realistic for her at this time and at this moment? Probably not. Um, so I have to step back and see what

Laine: Well, that's funny. Cause you're touching on like, you know, we've talked about this before with like sports and, and all that, like how, you know, you're saying the Olympic thing. I just think so many parents, you see, you know, They just want their kids to either do the things they didn't do or to relive, you know, things that they started and didn't quite finish or, you

Isis: And that is perfect because that's exactly what we're talking about. We have our own sets of ideas of what we want for our kiddos, but we have to take ourselves out a lot of times and look at really, you know, what Where are they? What are they doing? What do they want to do?

Nell: It's so hard to find that, that thin line between like guiding them and supporting them and encouraging them and saying like, yes, like if you want to succeed, it's hard work. And then also just turning into like a

Laine: new age thinking because historically, when you think about even when like people were coming to the United States for education and whatnot, like, Parents, like immigrants, people were, they were, you know, requiring their kids to do one of three professions, like you're going to med school, you're going to law school, you're going to be an engineer.

So it's like there was, I think like in, at least in the, in the U. S. like there was such an emphasis on how to be successful and it wasn't necessarily seeking out, you know, what makes you happier or satisfied, you know?

Isis: I think that, I think that's, that's, that's, that's very true. And we're, we're definitely not there anymore. Now we're in a, in a space where, you know, we're, we're really allowing individuals to explore what really they, they like, they enjoy and how they, you know, how do you grow from that? Um, it's no longer the days of being doctors and lawyers.

Surgeons and engineers and all that stuff.

Nell: Well, now it seems like it's not even the age of one career. It's now like people are so kind of fluid career wise throughout their lives, even how you said that you came from special education primarily, and then now here you have this business for executive function. And I mean, obviously there, there's cousins, let's say, but it's still like this evolution.

Isis: Yeah. I, but isn't life fluid

Nell: Yes, it is.

Isis: and something that it might be your interest, you know, five years ago. It's completely different today. So, you know, I think the same goes for our kids. So it's worth kind of looking and observing from that lens for a little bit.

Laine: absolutely.

Nell: There's um, there's two topics that kind of combine here since we're speaking about the sports, and I feel like they really play off of each other. We want to know your thoughts on overscheduling of kids, and then the overspecialization of sports, and I say that because the sports have to do with the overscheduling.

I mean, I guess if it's not sports, it could be extracurricular. academic things as well. Um, but I guess I wanted to know what

Laine: No, but that's true. It's like dance for, you know, I, I feel like,

Nell: Yes. It doesn't have to

Laine: daughter. It's like so much dance. And then, you know, like

Nell: But that idea that it's like every day after school, kids have something. Like, I think there's this almost like in my neighborhood, sometimes I think, well, wow, there's not even that many kids out there playing because they literally have something every day.

So unless they're four, you know, I have a four year old that might have some friends. To hang out with in the park, but otherwise like that. I mean even my daughter who's seven now She doesn't really have you know, people are the kids that age are doing something

Laine: yeah, the backyard play is, is at a minimum.

Nell: So what are your thoughts on this

Isis: My thoughts,

Nell: Pandora's

Isis: my thoughts are wow. Um, just wow for, for many, many reasons. You know, again, I think that we're at a place, we're at a place right now in our culture where we want to keep our kids busy for all of the reasons under the sun that we can imagine. Um, and yeah. I think that keeping our kids busy is cool and keeping those minds engaged.

I think that overdoing it sometimes is, is, could be a little too much. Um, and that's my very personal opinion. Um, You know, I think that with everything in life, there should be balance, um, especially, you know, when we have kiddos that, you know, need a little bit more time to be able to understand process, acquire a skill.

So,

Laine: you say that, that, that it's like, what is the harm of that? When you say like, yeah, they need a little bit more time. What is the, what is the, the repercussions of a child staying busy, being

Nell: And not having a

Laine: what's the down, what's the downside of that

Isis: burnout,

Laine: burnout?

Isis: frustration, um, they want to give up. They don't want to do it. They're done. Uh, they stopped trying. Um, I have a client that for the majority of his elementary middle school, he was busy all the time. doing sports and doing extracurriculars and ninth grade, which is the year of high school.

We call it the year where everything counts for college. He had a mental breakdown and it was too much for him. Um, and two things happen. Uh, one, He was exhausted because he, he was doing something he didn't want to do. And two, it took him a long time to kind of recover from that. And, and

Nell: When you say doing something you didn't want to

Laine: of like developmental brain. It's still your brain still developing. That's what's so sad about that to go through a breakdown at that young age.

Isis: Yeah.

Nell: and was that you mean also from physical like because of a sport that He was doing that was too intense or you mean more

Isis: Both. He's a runner. So yeah, it was really intense for him. Um, Yeah. And then he had to keep up with the academic challenges, and then he had to do the music, and then he had to run and run and run and run and run and run. And, um, and then he wanted to do soccer at school, and he wanted to play basketball at school, and it just became too much.

So ninth game, ninth grade came around, and that was it. Um, he had a really challenging year and he was burnt out and he was trying to figure out what's happening to me. Is my brain broken? No, he went from doing something super intense for all these years to, to just collapsing and just being like, I can't, like, I can't.

So it took him a good year and a half to kind of recover. He's now a junior. Um, he's surviving and thriving, which is really good. The goal is to get him to living, not having to feel like he's in survival mode. Um, and I think that that's a direct consequence of, of,

Laine: those are big repercussions that I was gonna

Isis: are big

Laine: are

Nell: a huge

Laine: I didn't anticipate that

Nell: such a critical time.

Isis: Now on the flip side, right? We have kids that can run with that and can survive and can do it and can keep up with the challenges. And for those kids, congratulations. I think that's amazing. I think that as parents, uh, gymnastics coach once told me our job is to be the cozy, fuzzy blankets. Uh, that they come home to and we support them.

Um, and, and we create spaces for them to be able to rest and, and chill and, and not think. And, and, you know, I can't even tell you from personal experience, I have an athlete at home and Sundays. Um, I don't see her cause she lives in her room sleeping and that's okay because that's the way that she's choosing to recharge and rejuvenate and feel really great about herself.

Um, to get ready for the week, but, but yeah, those are things that we just have to kind of think about. How do we, how do we as parents

Nell: To accept.

Laine: I was going to mention when you're when you're talking about the sports thing. My husband played baseball and he says even like, you know, we have a young boy and he says all the time like. You have to keep the love of the game there right now. You cannot, like we see a lot of kids doing like the pitching lessons or the, you know, the hitting lessons.

And I mean, it's fine to some level. It's good to obviously get, you know, get the repetition going. But he's like, you can't, you can't burn them out young. They have to love the game. That's the most important thing at this age is to love the game because that's what keeps you going.

Nell: Well,

Isis: you, I will tell you, um, like I said, I'm a mom of a, of an app of a high performing athlete. And. This year, she has had opportunities that come to her where she could do things at a higher competitive level. And as, as, as a team, her coaches, her, her parents, we've discussed what does it mean to go to the next level?

And we've all decided that she's going to. play out this last year. Um, she's going to do the great things that she's going to do this year. And then when she turned 16, then we're going to look at what the next step is. Um, because one of the major things is we want to make sure that a, she doesn't print out B, she continues to love what she's doing.

C, she allows her body to finish developing and D she gains the maturity that she needs to be able to go get whatever it is that she wants to go get.

Nell: Well, so that's, I love, that is such an inspiring story to hear. I feel like that is, so it puts it in perspective, like 16 is very different than let's say 11. And I feel like sometimes we have this like intensity with these kids that are 10 and 11 years old, 12 years old even. And it, I. You know how you explain this boy who had the burnout that wanted to do a lot of sports.

I can relate to that with my son right now. And sometimes I get resentful towards the structure of the sports now that like when we grew up, I want to imitate what happened that I did like, which was that we huddled these seasonal sports. You could play everything. You didn't have to commit for some to something and do it.

you know, 10 months of the year or 12 months of the year, nonetheless. And, and I, I find that frustrating because I think it pushes the burnout because I think it's like, I mean, that's why I like the school sport teams, because I like that they do these short little stints and they can try it. But so quickly that turns into, you should be in the club sport.

Then if you play volleyball with the school, then do the club. And, and it's like, Oh, why can't they just, you know, do a few months and yeah, when they're 14, 15, take it more seriously.

Laine: then the practices are so intense and it's a big time commitment

Nell: they don't really allow the kids the flexibility to play more than one. Sport and to switch, you know between well right now they it's very hard to like you you're going I'm going against the grain is what I would say By allowing my son to play that much.

I look like a crazy mom, but for me I feel like it's kind of my pushing back to The over specialization so young because I want to say to the coaches you don't own my son yet You're not going to burn his I don't know right shoulder out on serving You know five days a week when he's only 11. You know, if he chooses to do that, like you were saying, when he's 16 and he wants to go to five days a week, then that's going to be his choice and he'll be at the mental capacity to develop that and have that, I don't know, the development to be able to understand what he's doing.

Isis: Yeah. I think that, I think that, you know, here's, here's, here's one angle to look at it. Um, and again, I come from being a gymnastics mom where that was six days a week, four hours, a day. Um, and, and unfortunately she had an injury. And so, you know, we stopped that and we realized really quickly after that, um, that coaches and clubs are going to push us as far as they can do that.

Um,

Laine: is that just a money grab, do you think? I mean, that's just

Isis: I think there's a combination, obviously she was doing really well in the sport. So for sure, The prestige of having a, a high quality athlete at their gym was, was, was a thing. But,

Laine: like, just in all sports, like, is that like, is that's what's happening now? Like, just these

Isis: that there's a combination. Yeah, of course there's the prestige and the money piece of that.

I think it comes into play. Um, so what I realized really quickly, uh, You know, with this is that we need to give our kids the space to, to explore what they want. Um, and not really take it that serious. Um, cause you know, after gymnastics, she did swimming and she did it at the YMCA. And when she got bored, she was like, I want to try soccer.

And when she was done with that, then she's like, I'll try running. And then she didn't do a club for running. She just did it for school. And it was for me, um, at the end of the school year. And that was it. Um, once. We moved to Puerto Rico. She was like, yeah, I want to really try it more because I liked it.

She did really good. So, you know, I think that we need to listen to our kids. I think that's what we need to do. I think we need to listen and, and, and, and also give them that boundary. Listen, you're going to try the sport. This is gonna be the season. Um, when that one's done, we'll try the next one. Um, but we want to make sure that you're focusing and balancing school with.

Uh, with your sport, staying active because really at the end of the day, why are we doing all this? That's the question I have.

Nell: Well, this is,

Isis: are we doing this?

Nell: I do this exercise often where I, I try to go into my future self, my future now, and I'm like, what would I say 15 years from now, 10 years from now even, what would I, what advice would I give myself? Would I say like, girl, chill, like,

Laine: like you're running around too much. Yeah, you're

Nell: Yes, like, try like, create more space or like, they're not going to be professional athletes like, enjoy that they're in sports or whatever but don't ever let that take over your life.

Don't take a family weekend away because of a soccer game. All those things that you.

Laine: that is tough.

Nell: And that's what I'd like to ask you is, is like, so you talked a little about burnout, like speak to us on how important is it for them to take an academic break in the summer, to take a sports break, you know, even if it's from an intense sport that they're practicing more full time, like how important are these, these breaks?

Isis: Breaks are important. Um, I'll give you two very clear examples. Um, and I keep going back to my kids just because, I mean, I live it. I have a 23 year old and I have my 14 year old and you know, my, my 23 year old told me I'm going to work. 80 hours a week. And I said, no, you're not. No, you're not.

Cause you're going to burn out and then you're going to hate what you're doing. So, and, and, and, you know, the opposite. My daughter, she sleeps every Sunday. We need balance. We need balance. And I think summer is meant for Mental break. Go do something that has nothing to do with sports or school. Um, go expand your mind and other in other ways.

Go travel. Go learn a new skill. Try something different. Um, breaks are really important to help your brain recharge. You can't have that processor on all the time. So let me let me give you this example. If you have your laptop on 24 7 for three months, At some point, it's going to glitch. It's happened to me.

The same with my phone and every so often I have to reboot it so that it kind of just takes a second break

Nell: a restart.

Isis: to restart, to restart, refresh, redo, um, and I think that breaks are really important. They're important for us as adults. Um, I can only imagine for kids, um, they need to be able to not have that processor going 24 seven, even those bodies.

Cause those bodies also get tired from doing. 27 million, you know, sports or doing the one sport, 30 million hours a year. You know what I mean?

Nell: So can you tell us, can you tell us if there's something you think that family, I mean, not to be negative, I don't want to be negative, but what that brings on, I'm like, what, is there something you would say, like, I guess that one of the takeaways is that we need to listen to our children more and be a little more guided by their kind of intuitive desires or whatnot and what they

Laine: Yeah, but I think what you're like, you want to have like for our listeners to walk away with a few

Nell: doing wrong? What, what do we do? Well, first I want to say, what are we doing wrong? And then I want those three things after of like the takeaways, but like, is there something that like, Hey guys, wake up like family first.

Isis: this is what I got to say, reflect on how current, how reflect on your family dynamics. What, why, what, what is this experience all about? About being families and parents? What, what are we, why are we having it in general? And this is like more, you know, an out there exit. It's an existential question, right?

Why are we having this experience? Right? So how are we prioritizing our time with our family? How are we prioritizing our relationships with our, with our, with our families? Um, and, um, Um, what is, you know, what does our quality time look like? Um, if we cannot, if we don't have a clear answer to that, that probably means that we're probably reaching levels of stress.

We're getting caught up. We're being disconnected. We're just going through the motion, which trying to expose our kids for where, I don't know. So I think that one thing that. is important is to really emphasize the need for families to prioritize shared activities, downtime, strengthen those relationships and provide emotional support.

And anything that you guys do as a family.

Laine: Well, I think that's really, uh, really beautiful. And I actually, this entire time you've been talking, I just can't help but think about how much even as an adult we experience this stuff because I know, I know you mentioned it, that it's something that like continues through brain development and through all of our years.

But I definitely feel like For me, even the executive functioning can get tricky sometimes, like, I feel so scattered. I have half completed tasks all over, and I think sometimes, like, I have to really slow down and be like, okay, what's my next task? And then once you're

Nell: What's my path through the day? Like what, how am I organizing

Laine: yeah, you, even just as simple as like, you can't make three lunches, unload a dishwasher, make your morning coffee and get breakfast prepped and give your dog a bone at the same time.

You're just like. That was me this morning. I was just like, you know, and have a conversation with a four, five year old, you know, like an engaged conversation. I was like, girlfriend, girlfriend. I'm like, really, really focusing. I know I have this list of things to do, you know, it's, it's, it's difficult. And it does sometimes take away a little bit of the joy of it because those things can be joyful.

They can be fun. They can be like part of your morning hustle, but they can become very overwhelming quickly.

Isis: yeah, they can. Um, you know, I think that for us to be able to understand What we need as a family. We definitely need to listen to each other. Um, and we need to kind of find ways to discuss the importance of having breaks and our daily routines, allowing our kids to unwind and engage in unstructured play.

Even if we have family game night or karaoke, it doesn't matter. You're doing things just to have fun as, as, as a

Laine: This, I think, needs

Nell: Oh, I want to do a karaoke night. This is a good one. Love that idea.

Laine: game night, like it's, I, I, we haven't really cashed in on that. I will say as a family, I would

Isis: game nights are, are amazing. And then, you know, look at your start, start kind of tracking. What does that look like? How does it feel now versus, you know, what we were doing before? Does that make sense? Um, and kind of just kind of. Taking it from there and, and, and really starting to really build on that, that family connection with them.

Because at the end of the day, that's really what we're doing here is we're really building bonds with these people that we absolutely adore. And, you know, when our kids get older, we, we want to, We want to remember those times. We don't want to remember that we were in the car,

Laine: Oh

Nell: then can you just speak,

Isis: day to the other.

Nell: can you speak on, because this is, you know, I feel like a lot of people are drawn to executive function because of academic purposes, then where does the academic part fall in the sense of like this academic excellence and achieving and getting good grades to get to good college?

Laine: yeah. Like, where does it, where are we left with that?

Nell: yes, exactly, just because I want to make sure.

Isis: I think that, I think that it goes back to that balance. You know, when I was growing up, I, I always thought about, my parents always told me, you know, you, your, your, your purpose for going to school is so that you can be in a self sufficient individual in the future, right? Um, so that's why we have education in our path.

I still think that's true. Um, we're building blocks. I don't care how you get to, to, to, to the professional part, but you want to definitely always You always want to be learning about stuff. So taking time to learn and to, and to, um, and to participate in the academic process, even after school, I think is part of that balancing act.

Um, so I always say school, so I always say school. extracurriculars, sleep, and then redo, right? Why do I say that? Well, because we need to have that space so that we can focus on the academic piece. Now, pushing kids to go to Harvard, no, I don't agree with that. Um, kids are going to learn what they love and they enjoy, and they're going to apply it in the workforce.

Uh, no matter what college experience they have. And I tell the story all the time. There are, there are students that are absolutely phenomenal, um, and they do get into Harvard, they have great experiences, but sometimes they graduate and they go to Harvard and they're like, Oh, this is not what I wanted to do.

Um, and, and it's a lot more simple. I say, go pursue your dreams. Um, don't focus on trying to.

Nell: Checkboxes.

Isis: Check boxes, right? Um, just, um, enjoy your academic experience at a pace that works for you and pursue the things that you enjoy. And if you want to go to college, go to college and pursue that interest to the fullest so that you're enjoying the process.

Um, and if, and if that's, that's not the experience you want to have, and I know a lot of people don't like hearing that, but if that's not the experience you want to have, then try to pursue your interests and learn the most. Um, about that, um, interest. through the experiences that you have. don't know if that answers your question.

Nell: It does. I, I, and this is the, our last posing one that Leigh and I had written down was for you to give us three characteristics that we, that we should aim for wanting to send our kids off with. Like when they're, when we're done with them, quote unquote, like at 18 and they go off to the next step, whether it be college or right into work, like what are these characteristics that we want to

Laine: the meaningful ones that, that are going to take them, you know, take them far in life.

Isis: Develop good habits because they're going to last you forever. Whatever you learn today, you're going to be able to use it a million years from now. Be kind to yourself and to the people around you. And to do that, you have to practice that at home. Um, and number three, um, just be the best that you can. Um, and how are you the best?

that you can by knowing that every day you go out there and you do the best that you can, that you, that you've tried your hardest, that you've, that you've given, um, what you got and you've done it with intention and with purpose.

Nell: I love that.

Laine: Yeah.

Nell: O! Standing O!

Laine: Say that girl.

Nell: Wow.

Laine: Well, definitely positive, positive vibes. I love

Nell: Yes, it's so good to, I, I feel definitely, like, inspired in the sense of coming back, like, pulling back from some of, like, the getting overwhelmed, like you said, by checking boxes or maybe overachieving. And it's just that reminder, like, talking to you and having this discussion is such a reminder for me to just go down to the foundation and the importance

Laine: I like the idea of when you reflect back, because I, I do think about that, like that 20, like when you're, when you're seeing it, like the forest through the trees, when you see it in retrospect, the things you want to remember are not literally like stressing out about carpool and driving and like, Oh, we were five minutes late for this and then, you know, and trying to put the football helmet and the, and you want to reflect on like the game nights and the cuddling up and the story time

Nell: and or the family weekends, like not, you know, completely committing your weekends to sports or

Laine: I mean, those, the, the, the, the, the sports games can be fun and they can be fun, but you're right, everything in balance.

Nell: everything in balance. Yeah.

Isis: To me, to me as a mom right now, I enjoy, I enjoy just sitting around the table and eating dinner, right? With my, with my kids and just listening to them talk and just listening to them, you know, kind of share their dreams and aspirations of whatever. Um, to me it's a drive home from practice where she was just unloading all the goofiness.

You know, it's, it's being able to get a hug from her, right? Cause she's hugging me and she's telling me, mommy, I love you so much. And thank you for all the things that you

Nell: Oh,

Isis: those are the things that I really take away.

Nell: and that is a beautiful thing. I, I have to say about the sports or the dance or the extra where, where they, they come out with endorphins and feeling happy. And I think there's definitely that element of where they're just like you said, that's how we'll gotten, they'll say like letting out all their thoughts and you kind of get a different version of them because they're not just walking out of school stressed out.

They're getting to go blow off steam and, and see friends and. It opens them up in a different way.

Isis: I've also started to participate or create spaces for them. So like not too long ago I started doing this thing once a month where, you know, I pick an activity where they were, you know, Liana and her friends can just go and hang out. So we're going all, we're all going bowling. So, and I create those spaces and I'll bowl with them and I'll have fun.

So I can, even within the things that I'm doing, even within the things that we're doing that are. have, you know, sports related or academic. I'm always trying to find spaces. To create those special moments so that so that she does take those away so that she does remember. Hey We're I'm working really hard, but I'm also Enjoying my time with my family. We try to do a lot of things together.

Nell: I are both going to be doing um, family game night and karaoke night,

Laine: Yeah, I'm like, what's

Nell: That's my

Laine: on the agenda for Friday night? I'm already thinking. I'm brewing.

Nell: too, I

Isis: are things So I'll give you the activities. We've done cooking night together. So we've made pizzas We've done so we had like pizza making night and that's really fun and they get to do their things especially for little ones That's really fun

Nell: course,

Isis: We we do game night. We do karaoke night. We do movie night we do even at the dinner table we do silly games like My my my son loves to do like this alphabet game where we have to come up with words and then we have to string Them all along we have to remember them.

Laine: Oh, yeah.

Isis: So it's really cool. So we we do a lot of that stuff Stuff together already, even, even as they're teenagers and, and young adults.

Nell: And that might be the most important time is the joke, you know, to keep that up. So, I love that. Well, thank you so, so much, ECs, for carving out this time to talk with us and bless us with your knowledge and your

Isis: I hope, I hope I gave you what you guys,

Nell: Yes,

Laine: think it's just, it's good material to kind of marinate on and it puts things into perspective. I think for all of us parents who are

Isis: Yeah.

Laine: facing these challenges of modern day. sports and academics.

Isis: Okay, cool.

Laine: So thank you.

Nell: Thank you so

Laine: Okay,

Nell: Yay.

Laine: muchas gracias. Chao, chao. Okay.